tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post5354530708134579781..comments2024-03-20T08:32:25.794-04:00Comments on Dept. of Nance: My Latest Obsession: I Stand Up For Mary LincolnNancehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17627214346956206283noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-40619301903166330002008-04-08T16:50:00.000-04:002008-04-08T16:50:00.000-04:00ck--I'm always so flattered when anyone thinks of ...ck--I'm always so flattered when anyone thinks of me; thank you! And to be thought of in the company of the Lincolns, well...!<BR/>And OMG--that bunny is squeezalicious.<BR/><BR/>gina--sometimes, life with kids gets in the way and the momentum is lost. (I'm assuming you meant the bio-book, not this post? LOL) also, it is a very affecting story. maybe it just got you down and you had to stop and get your head back into your life and your family.<BR/><BR/>laura--thanks for the compliment on my post. the medical effects of her crying were said to be surface swelling and blisters on her corneas, leading to extreme sensitivity to light and pain, even to the extent that blinking was painful. certainly it became a vicious cycle: her staying in the dark must have made any light at all that much harder to bear. and in her heightened depressed and martyred state, she probably felt it was somewhat of a stigmata in its own way. grief is terrible and savage in its way.Nancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17627214346956206283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-20670387953781930052008-04-08T13:43:00.000-04:002008-04-08T13:43:00.000-04:00When I left my comment the other day, I attended a...When I left my comment the other day, I attended a book fair at the elementary school that night. There was a whole table full of Lincoln books. I thought of you.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and if I didn't mention it before (and even if I did), I LOVE that widdle white bunny up in the corner. So cute!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01015442439562633822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-28805690277886073102008-04-08T12:38:00.000-04:002008-04-08T12:38:00.000-04:00I partially read the bio, but found it really inte...I partially read the bio, but found it really interesting, I can't remember why I stoppped reading.<BR/><BR/>Great post!Ginahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11604097511444010759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-64316167629340413842008-04-07T23:23:00.000-04:002008-04-07T23:23:00.000-04:00I find myself, more and more, feeling for Mrs. Lin...I find myself, more and more, feeling for Mrs. Lincoln. I read the biography by Jean Baker (wonderful!) a bit ago and now can completely feel for how she must have felt. How horrible it must have been to witness the deaths of one's babies and husband...and still face the hatred of a country that misunderstood her and the indifference of a son who was basically, in my opinion,a cad. You could have gone on and on and I would have read every word. As a side note, I often wonder if it is possible that I could cry myself blind. I swear my eyes have gotten a lighter shade of green because of it.Laurahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10242720787149022301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-67947903122166739602008-04-07T20:03:00.000-04:002008-04-07T20:03:00.000-04:00j.@jj--that's true, j. A.P. junior was left behind...j.@jj--that's true, j. A.P. junior was left behind by her mother and father to raise the remainder of the children, and she also died young, if i recall correctly. i think she was anywhere from 34-37, depending upon sources, when she died, unmarried, as you say.Nancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17627214346956206283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-83741687636098330482008-04-07T17:27:00.000-04:002008-04-07T17:27:00.000-04:00I've never looked into Billy Herndon, but if he wa...I've never looked into Billy Herndon, but if he was Lincoln's law partner at one point, then it would have to be the same one. Bad Billy!<BR/><BR/>I heard that Anne Putnam kind of got her karma comeuppance, in that her parents died when she was young, and she had to raise her many younger brothers and sisters herself...and never ended up marrying. You've studied more than I have...does that mesh with your understanding of her fate?Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00653383372182667361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-91990100066419175872008-04-07T16:07:00.000-04:002008-04-07T16:07:00.000-04:00rd--thanks so much! your comments are kind and mos...rd--thanks so much! your comments are kind and most welcome. please stop by often. have you read Doris Kearns Goodwin's wonderful book "Team of Rivals"? It's a terrific look at Lincoln's genius.Nancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17627214346956206283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-34142014201524055732008-04-07T13:21:00.000-04:002008-04-07T13:21:00.000-04:00A fascinating and engrossing post! Loved it. Just ...A fascinating and engrossing post! Loved it. Just got back from DC and once again visited Lincoln's memorial and took in his words. A giant of man in every sense. I love this story of Mary. Tough and tragic woman.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-48667675264986844692008-04-06T16:36:00.000-04:002008-04-06T16:36:00.000-04:00roxanna--thank you so much, roxanna. i read that n...roxanna--thank you so much, roxanna. i read that novel; was it called just "Mary"? i enjoyed it immensely and i also thought it did a pretty good job of not being too terribly sensationalized. forgive my curiosity, but are you the same roxanna who was a fairly regular reader and commenter before and had a blog as well? if so, welcome back. if not, thank you for your first comment and welcome to the Dept!Nancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17627214346956206283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-79037099561558238092008-04-06T15:14:00.000-04:002008-04-06T15:14:00.000-04:00What a fantastic post Nance. I, too, am quite inte...What a fantastic post Nance. I, too, am quite interested by the Lincolns. I read a book a few months ago that was an "auto-biography" of Mary Lincoln (obviously fiction). It was very good - it seemd to be to be well reseasrched, and fairly balanced. If I can remember the title I'll share it. <BR/><BR/>I love your blog Nance!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-44722195388143383592008-04-06T12:37:00.000-04:002008-04-06T12:37:00.000-04:00j@jj--sigh. that anne putnam. the afflicted girl a...j@jj--sigh. that anne putnam. the afflicted girl and her mother, both troublemakers, as you undoubtedly know, but at least anne junior wrote an "apology" of sorts. although she copped out and basically said "the devil made me do it." as far as herndon, is it william herndon, the one that made the infamous "Lincoln's first love was really Ann Rutledge" speech that Mary was forced to live down, or the "Lincoln was really illegitimate" speech that sent Robert Lincoln in a mad dash to find the family bible that proved that Lincoln's parents were married? He was really a thorn in the Lincolns' side, especially Mary's. But on to poor Sarah Osborne...she was such a horrifically sad case, wasn't she? Among the first accused, desperately ill, dying in jail. You have a very rich family history. and you're not "cluttering up comments." i enjoy the chatting inspired here. please do it often! that's why i call this area "brainstorms."<BR/><BR/>nancy--oh, thank you. the book is called "mary todd lincoln: a biography" by jean h. baker. it is wonderful. of course, i left so much out, but i wanted to highlight the amount of personal tragedy that may have been at the root of some of her eccentric and extreme behavior exhibited later in life. i think so many people, including MALE historians, forget the devastating consequences of so much personal pain and loss.<BR/><BR/>ortizzle--i have never come across that particular anecdote. it sounds like lincoln, but the fact that i've never read it makes me think it may very well be apocryphal. thanks for reading my big long post.<BR/><BR/>apathy lounge/ab--good point. i still see women in the public eye being much more harshly judged than men. this presidential race being an example. <BR/><BR/>ih--exactly. and i feel that way still. i'd rather have the flowers now, when i'm alive and can appreciate them, than when i'm dead and can't even see them. washington, chicago, springfield...all these cities reviled mary lincoln during her lifetime. even new york, whose merchants benefitted from her considerable shopping mania. in death, she was suddenly more worthy? my heart aches for her.Nancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17627214346956206283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-71411331671226606922008-04-06T01:19:00.000-04:002008-04-06T01:19:00.000-04:00OK, I know I'm getting annoying now, but I thought...OK, I know I'm getting annoying now, but I thought you'd like to know that I went back to my blog and looked at this old post: http://jellyjules.com/?p=250<BR/>and remembered that I'm also related to the Putnams, one of whom (though not an ancestor) was Anne Putnam, who was one of the 'afflicted girls' in Salem. I realized that in that post, I failed to mention Billy Herndon, though I did mention a few others.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00653383372182667361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-13313920342870444972008-04-06T01:06:00.000-04:002008-04-06T01:06:00.000-04:00Oh, and just to clutter up your comments with my l...Oh, and just to clutter up your comments with my lineage, one of my family cousins (not an ancestor, but the cousin of an ancestor) was Billy Herndon, Lincoln's law partner. My family maintains that he wasn't nearly the drunk that history has made him out to be. I wonder.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00653383372182667361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-31485827034794570172008-04-06T01:04:00.000-04:002008-04-06T01:04:00.000-04:00Oh, and I read through your comments...this post w...Oh, and I read through your comments...this post was anything but dry. Rather the opposite, I think.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00653383372182667361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-39287907616452266592008-04-06T01:03:00.000-04:002008-04-06T01:03:00.000-04:00My ancestor is Sarah Osborne. She was Sarah Warre...My ancestor is Sarah Osborne. She was Sarah Warren, then Sarah Prince. My ancestor was one of her Prince sons. When her husband died, she married an indentured servant named Osborne, causing much commotion, and some worry amongst her sons about their inheritance. She died in jail before she could come to trial. I take a bit of pride in the fact that she refused to place blame on others, which many others did in the trials. She just refused to admit to being bewitched herself.<BR/><BR/>I was hooked on genealogy a few years ago, and this was one of the most interesting bits that came from that obsession.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00653383372182667361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-2573286548129735022008-04-05T19:05:00.000-04:002008-04-05T19:05:00.000-04:00Oh! Nance, I never knew about Mary Lincoln's sad l...Oh! Nance, I never knew about Mary Lincoln's sad life. I knew only the superficial facts that we all learned in History class.<BR/><BR/>I read every word of your post and actually could have read more about Mary, which is why I will be at the library on Monday for Jean Baker's biography of her.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for caring enough to write such a "long dry post" as you called it. I call it a long wonderful tribute to someone we all should know more about. A real <BR/>heroine who by government neglect and personal slander was made into a tragic figure..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-8490270514627236272008-04-05T15:33:00.000-04:002008-04-05T15:33:00.000-04:00Fascinating. And so tragic. No one should have to ...Fascinating. And so tragic. No one should have to face life with so much death.<BR/><BR/>I knew nothing about Mary Lincoln except an anecdote which is probably apocryphal, to the effect that when she introduced herself to Lincoln, she said that her last name was Todd, "with two d's"... to which L. supposedly replied, "One was enough for God."Ortizzlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03709991994425909880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-5163440309919610122008-04-04T20:13:00.000-04:002008-04-04T20:13:00.000-04:00In high school I read a biography of Mary Lincoln....In high school I read a biography of Mary Lincoln. I think it was called "Love is Eternal". I remember then being struck by her bravery and also by the singular cruelty of an ignorant public. Times haven't changed much...have they?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-70981060354163570092008-04-04T19:19:00.000-04:002008-04-04T19:19:00.000-04:00It's a shame that she was "respected" enough to ha...It's a shame that she was "respected" enough to have her death declared a holiday but to be so mistreated during life. I'd rather have it be the opposite - to be able to enjoy the time when people appreciate you.Mikey G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00897636566850280566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-83102211611295797632008-04-04T15:23:00.000-04:002008-04-04T15:23:00.000-04:00nancy in a2--that would be so nice. by no means am...nancy in a2--that would be so nice. by no means am i her only modern-day champion, but i would like to think that, after all this time, she deserves some understanding and kindness, and that it's time history rewrote her chapter.Nancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17627214346956206283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-53512679504538320762008-04-04T15:18:00.000-04:002008-04-04T15:18:00.000-04:00anali--of course that picture is such a fraud, but...anali--of course that picture is such a fraud, but she took comfort in it. do you know that she and her husband were never, ever photographed together? most people theorize that it's because she didn't like how short and heavy she looked next to him, but no one knows for sure why.<BR/><BR/>jen--i know it's a horridly long post, but she had gone through so much tragedy in such a short time, and she's never really given sympathy for it. most people just say, "Oh, yes, she was insane and poor Abraham Lincoln." she was so vastly misunderstood. my heart just aches for her. and for him.<BR/><BR/>ck--he is one of only a couple of american presidents that I call "President." i admire and respect Abraham Lincoln so much. and i find Mary Lincoln such a tragic figure...both of them, really. thanks for reading.<BR/><BR/>j.@jj--yes, the weeping affliction is apparently true. i've read so many books about her and the Lincolns now, and it's come up consistently. regarding your ancestor--which one is it? i teach The Crucible, and I also have a Salem Witch Trials interest. (Sigh.) I've read the court documents online and have read about a dozen books. That whole saga is fascinating and tragic as well, made moreso by the crass commercialization of the entire Salem/Danvers area. <BR/><BR/>shirley--oh my, believe me; Mary Lincoln's "due" has been given by wonderful author Jean Baker, whose very sensitive and thorough biography is a partial source for my post. I relied on about 4 books for this post, and it was so hard to make it only THIS long. I've been obsessed by Mary Lincoln for years, and I've been reading deeply about the Lincolns for a while, on and off. Sometimes I have to stop because I just feel so entered by their tragedy and so compelled by it. While Mary is fascinating and complex, the President is truly noble and inspiring. But what happened to them both is just so profoundly sad. I took a big gamble with such a long, dry post, but I just had to write it. Thanks for sticking with me. And Mary.Nancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17627214346956206283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-25840663830676972352008-04-04T13:06:00.000-04:002008-04-04T13:06:00.000-04:00She really did go through some horrible horrible t...She really did go through some horrible horrible times. I've never seen that ghost picture before. Quite interesting...Lisa Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08096947438461486505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-44957343889401573752008-04-04T12:45:00.000-04:002008-04-04T12:45:00.000-04:00This was a very educational briefing! I didn't kn...This was a very educational briefing! I didn't know anything about Mary and now I know a lot! Thank you for your wisdom :-)jenomenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09125646154464097317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-71453469760192245112008-04-04T08:58:00.000-04:002008-04-04T08:58:00.000-04:00Wow. I had no idea what she was like or what she w...Wow. I had no idea what she was like or what she went through. Lincoln was always my "favorite" president. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01015442439562633822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15179498.post-87596547002433167582008-04-04T01:14:00.000-04:002008-04-04T01:14:00.000-04:00Wow...that was really fascinating! I only knew tha...Wow...that was really fascinating! I only knew that she was southern, and her kids died. Poor woman. I wonder if it was actually true that her crying caused her eyesight to fail...that's scary.<BR/><BR/>I have an ancestor who was arrested and died in jail as a witch in Salem, MA. She owned property, and had remarried. Her kids, I suspect, were in on it, wanting to make sure that their inheritance went to them, and not to the new younger husband. Creepy, huh?Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00653383372182667361noreply@blogger.com